Hi Muralman1,

I saw that discussion on Horns. But "horn" is a very general term and includes all sorts of rubbish speakers under that mantle.

I have found on my travels that many people out there have usually missed the point and have homed in on one particular aspect or strength of their sound at home. I have heard some awful sounds from people who you would think would have it all sorted out.

I have never heard my Trio sound "honky". Quite the opposite. I did have some issues when I first got them with balance. But some time setting them up and common sense soon made them sing. Even more so with the introduction of a 45 tube amp.

Right now my system has the best sound I have ever had. I would even go as far to say that I have heard at all.

Rather than discussing horns we should discuss the speaker. ie A Trio or a whatever. It is far too general otherwise. It is another reason why there are so many confused audiophiles. I could make my system sound ordinary by changing just one thing in the chain. So you have to be real clear about what you are discussing or chasing or changing.

chadeffect June 10, 2010 17:49

Hey, Chad, you must really know how to make horns sound so good. At forums, horn discussion rarely bring out a positive nod.

muralman1 June 08, 2010 19:12

Hi Chad
I have the WAVAC EC 300 B amplifier here for my demonstrations with Avantgarde speakers.
It is wonderfully built plus sounds very good when matched with the Avantgarde speakers.
Thanks Jason.

jasonparmenter June 02, 2010 19:18

Hi Jason,

a good friend of mine has just bought that amp for his Duo. We pretty much swap and play around with our kit, so I hope to have a blast of the Wavac soon.

I like the look of the Anniversary Globe 45 too. Very tempting as I have globe tubes for the rectifier. I am going for the Emission Lab mesh 45 though. I hope to receive it in the next few days.

I will let you know how I get on when it arrives and settles in.

chadeffect May 30, 2010 22:54

Hello Chad
The Emission labs 45 is excellent, we are using this tube in my 45 mono blocks in NZ on the Avantgarde Duo, I really like the look of their Globe 45 anniversary addition.
We used the WAVAC EC 300 B amplifiers on the Duo Omega with very good results set to 16 ohm.
The WAVAC uses Transformer Interstage to drive the 300B giving better bass dynamics.
Thanks Jason.

jasonparmenter May 30, 2010 20:06

Hi Jason,

thanks for your post. I have found the 45 tube which came with the Yamamoto to be nice. I gave all the pins a good clean with deoxit. This made a quite a difference. The pins were quite dirty. The sound is very fine and more modern sounding now. I think I am becoming addicted.

I am missing some very slight inner detail as I have been used to uber detailed amps. But I am sure a new tube will bring that. I think it is worth the effort. It is so close.

This is the first 45 tube I have tried(also the 1st 45 tubed amp I have tried). But I am told this version of the tube is a little bass shy and rolled off in the highs compared to the Emission Labs version of the 45.

Which 300b amps do you think I should try out? I liked the Audio note very much.

chadeffect May 30, 2010 10:32

Hi Chad
I have tried many valve amplifiers on the Avantgarde speakers and found the 45 to be one of my favorite tubes for this speaker for the delicacy and refinement of tone on voice and instruments.
Working with in the 45 `s power band it is a very seductive and addictive tube.
The best sounding 300 B amplifiers I tried on the Avantagrde speakers used a transformer driver stage.
Happy listening.
Jason.

jasonparmenter May 29, 2010 20:02

The Yamamoto A08s.

It is as lovely as people say. Quiet, sweet and transparent. Beautiful. There is something about it that makes you want to love it. It is cute and endearing. Female vocals are goose bump inducing. Instruments tingle with harmonics. I am not sure about the bass presentation yet, although it could be the tube. An Emission lab is on its way.(mesh and plate)

For a while I have been trying amps for the Trio. I must first say that there are many average amps out there. Especially in the tube world! I dont suffer the tube hair shirt easily. I do wonder what some of these guys listen to? They seem to focus on one thing and forget all the other things that are missing. Personally I want an amp to do everything. Is it too much to ask for?

I want low noise, transparency, dynamics, musicality, frequency extension, large soundstage and instrument size, with beauty in its communication. Most amps seem to do some but not all. Some do none. I wont name and shame. Also why are good tube so expensive? Surely once you have the design and parts its done isnt it? Not much gold in it. Surely the machines for manufacturing have existed for 50 years?

ICE power designers, start working on the next generation please. You are so close to getting it all right. Listen to a 45 and a 300b and include a touch of each into your presentation and your job will be done. Make it difficult for all the average amps to exist and stop them from confusing audiophiles that dont get out much.

Rant over.

Ps the Yamamoto is shockingly good.

chadeffect May 29, 2010 17:31

Mapman,

as usual you are completely right. A magnifying glass is exactly what the Trio is. Not only to the obvious things like transparency, soundstaging, dynamics, bass, treble etc, but to the character as a whole. It is an astonishing speaker. It amazes me regularly.

The beauty of many of the amps I have tried with the Trio has been a revelation to me. Unfortunately most have been limited to a specific beauty in a certain area. i.e Rich bass texture or midband texture or depth or emotional connection and flow. I hope to find one that does all of the above, or at least enough of all of the above!

I am told the 45 tube is it. I guess if you really wanted to you could have 2 different amps and swap depending on your mood. A 2 watt amp is not that expensive in the scheme of things... My plan is to find a good balance in one amplifier. If not maybe have one made specifically for my taste.

It has been great to have been able to try so many amps. I thank all those involved. I know you guys have been as keen as me to hear most of them. Some very late listening sessions! David if you are reading this, that 6am session must count as one of the longest and most eclectic.

chadeffect May 13, 2010 22:59

Chad,

I would suspect that highly efficient speakers like yours would result in different amps sounding more different than they might sound otherwise. That's because I expect high sensitivity to act almost like a magnifying glass, increasing differences that otherwise might be subtle.

Settling on a single amp in such a case might take a while. It would be like gong to the candy store and having to decide upon a single sweet treat to live with when there are so many different kinds available.

mapman May 13, 2010 17:06

A quick departure from the 300b and 300BXLS and into the world of the 6C33C-B.

I will report back as I have changed a couple of things at the same time. I know, very unprofessional but the audiophile bug got to me. This 6C33C-B tube seems to be way more transparent than any 300b I have tried.

The mid band is so quick and full of harmonic texture as is the high frequency. It reminds me of the 1st time I ever heard an electrostatic speaker if you know what I mean?

The bass is less romantic than the 300b amps I have tried, but equally deep and tighter. It seems to take a little longer than any other tube I have tried to warm up and be at its best. Even though it gets hot as hell.

This little Japanese amp, which I think is 14 watts with its 6C33C-B really is alive and vital. A captivating listen with real bite. I am loving these low powered offerings.

I await the 45 tube... An Emission mesh no less too. Hopefully tomorrow.

Audiophillia is alive and well here.

chadeffect May 13, 2010 15:16

Gallant diva, ha ha I know. Call a doctor quick!

Well I did say I was getting down and dirty with amps for the Trio. No stone unturned. It has been very interesting. Since I need no power, it has opened all sorts of doors.

In the last weeks I have tried all sorts. Including Tom Evans Linear A ,or as we call it the "bread bin". A hybrid hybrid hybrid amp! It sounded like ICE power but with more harmonic information. No noise or distortion. Very good I must say. Not quite a Halcro but not far for much less money.

I have been in the world of the 300b (including the 300bxls tubes. A fabulous tube BTW). I am finding the 300b is not as transparent or extended as I am used to, although very musical. Yes I could live without some of the extension and transparency. The Audio note was glorious in its rolled off cloudy way. The KR audio was like a beautiful Krell.

For some time now and after some research I have started to look into the original great tubes. So in the next few days I will have a 45 based amp. I am told it is the finest tube. We shall see.

My surprise so far has been how quiet many of the tube amps have been. So yes you may find me moving back to the ways of the tube... again. Only this time single figures of power. 2 watts maybe 5.

chadeffect May 08, 2010 09:14

"Yamamoto A08s with 45 tubes coming soon..."

What what what? digital tubes? Not a surprise. The first digital computer "Eniac" was build with vaccum tubes afterall.

kidding aside, you changing direction, chad? If yes, welcome back from the dark side.

gallant_diva May 08, 2010 01:26

Yamamoto A08s with 45 tubes coming soon... Anyone have an opinion on which are good 45 tubes? I have read all sorts about the mesh plate. I was hoping to put Emission labs 45s in. Any thoughts?

chadeffect May 08, 2010 00:09

These KR audio amps are really something. The most dynamic I have ever heard. It has nice texture and makes no noise on my 110 db Trios.

The bass coming out of this 300b amp is stunning.

I had a little rock out with some radiohead (The bends) today on the KRs. It was striking in its energy and the amps showed no sign of strain or congestion even at very high SPL.

They may not be the most transparent amps I have ever heard but really they are alive with PRAT. With a look like these surely means Batman uses them too. Kinda cool.

chadeffect April 27, 2010 23:27

haha Mapman,

you are completely right of course. Although I must add that the BCs sounded exactly the same on the Trio as they did on the Apogee. I thought it would sound thin or bright. But it sounded the same just with the atributes of the horn. So I kept purring!

chadeffect April 26, 2010 12:38

Chad,

I've come more and more to realize that there is no "best" anything in audio. Different pieces work best in different scenarios. An amp that sounds best with hard to drive Apogees cannot perform similarly with a high efficiency design like Avantgarde. It may work and even sound very good, but the equations are different meaning the results are as well. Plus toss in personal preferences which can change as well over time. Many ways to skin a cat, plus so many breeds and the cat generally will not even stand still.

mapman April 26, 2010 01:03

Hi Mapman,

I am glad they worked out for you. The BCs are a no brainer, especially if you need power. I have had to try quite a few amps beat them all round.

Now that I have really started to look into amplifiers for the Trios, rather than a lucky coincidence the BCs worked, I am confronted with all the amps I would have laughed at just a few years. You know things like a 2 watt amp, or an 8 watt one with all sorts of bizarre tubes in.

The KR audio I have at the moment is a case in point. While it is a 300b, the sound is like nothing I have heard. It is so dynamic, so heavy in midband and bass weight that I am slightly in shock. I thought thats what a "big" amp would sound like! Of course 2 watts is plenty in my case, and the KRs Antares are a mind blowing 20 watts. For many I am sure the KR would be hopeless. But with this efficiency its great.

IMHO there are 2 places where the ICE power is weak sonically. Those 2 things took mighty amps like the Halcro DM to show up and are very high end audiophile details. I hate to think what the future evolution of these boards will sound like. Nothing stand still.

chadeffect April 25, 2010 20:39

Chad,

It doesn't surprise me that watts, current and damping factor are not the key ingredients to make the best soup with the Avantgardes. I found it encouraging thought that the Bel Cantos lasted as long as they did though. Their not being exposed on your system with those speakers was a plus in my book and helped convince me to take the plunge with the ref1000 mkiis, which are just what the doctor ordered with my OHMs. I don't see myself going anywhere ampwise for a long time unless something unexpected comes up.

mapman April 25, 2010 13:48

300b tubes and the Trio? I have been getting down and dirty with amps for the Trio.

I have been using some 18 watt triode Audio Note monos. While there is some noise, something I am not used to, I found the Audio note to have so much music to offer that it is forgiven. The noise is only noticeable when there is nothing playing really. But I do feel like its 1937 or something with the hiss and slight buzzing.

While not as detailed a presentation as I am used to especially after ICE power and the fabulous Halcro DM38, somehow it is enough. I have always liked AN when I have heard them in the past. There is something very organic about them. On the Trio there is some magic with AN, and many hours of heightened listening containing gems of emotional connection. Damn that hiss!

There is a beautifully rich timbre and weight to the bass which even the Halcro could not produce. The AN leaves the Bel cantos sounded bleached out and a tad less involving.

Although the ultra low noise floor and width of the BCs does have a lot to offer in the mids and highs, there is a feeling that you are being robbed of something. The BCs massive damping factor ultimately sucking away timbre from the Trio. Zero or very low feedback is obviously the key here.

Now I am listening to the KR enterprises VA340, which has a much more modern approach to the 300b sonically than the AN. Almost solid state by comparison. No noise, extended and very dynamic. I will post more as time continues. I have yet to plug in some Alnic mono blocks which are said to be glorious too. What a feast.

I do feel my attention is now heading towards some boutique hand made Japanese flea power... The joy of high sensitivity speakers.

chadeffect April 25, 2010 13:10

Hi Mapman,

yes attention to detail. Obviously it is barely ticking over on the Trio, but it really has an ease and luxury about its sound/presentation. Very refined.

chadeffect April 06, 2010 23:06

Hi muarataltuev,

I am not using the clock anymore. I use the computer as "transport" these days and it is my only source. I use the Weiss firewire interface which means the computer is master clock.

The sound is excellent and the DCS is the best I have had it sound yet.

I am using the old upsampler to upsample 16 bit/44.1 files from the computer. Otherwise dual for higher sample rates direct into the DAC.

It has become extremely warm with analogue fluidity and a little more vibrant somehow.

chadeffect April 06, 2010 23:02

I like the halcro design from what I have read. It seems to have a unique approach to isolation of components which is something I can imagine squeezing extra performance out of an otherwise good amp design to start with.

mapman April 06, 2010 20:34

Chad, are you using dCS Upsampler in your setup?
I'm experimenting now with my Scarlatti full stack and found that best result I can have from DAC without Upsampler and external clock!
What is your findings?

murataltuev April 06, 2010 19:33

Hi muralman,

Halcro also make their own version of class d in their theater range. The DM series is another thing altogether.

They are said to have the finest specs in the world. The sound is so beautiful. Music is lit from the inside and seems to have a sunny air about it. Extremely natural and vibrant. Dare I say tube like in a way. Holographic. Leaving the BCs sounding hyped and etched.

The thing that I like most is the way it puts all that information together into a musical performance and flow with meaning. There is no thought of hifi.

Bruce Candy what a guy. Now can he make them cheap and small? Let everyone be able to have them. He would be doing the world a great service.

chadeffect March 30, 2010 22:38