Modified dualdrive turntable ends search

by pedrillo on All Out Assault

Description

I have discovered that the source makes or breaks the system, therefore I put some time into improving the turntable. It started off when I made my own platters out of acrylic and within the platter made cylindrical encasements to hold leadshot. I also replaced the feet with my custom made acrylic tubes again filled with leadshot. I kept using acrylic and leadshot for the tonearm board support and the bearing holding structure to avoid drilling out the original plinth since I was installing the latest vpi hr-x platter weighing in at 33 pounds or thereabouts and the bearing is much wider in diameter than the original bearing. Each time I made an improvement the source became quieter and so much more was coming out. Very happy to say the least. Also need to point out that the turntable is swinging off steel cables, so I like to think of it as the tt being somewhat decoupled from the room. There are some bungie chords as part of the suspension system for the turntable. The whole thing weighs right around 400 pounds some of it as part of the flywheel assembly. I would say the turntable is about 250 pounds. Also on top of the platter rests a weight also composed of you guessed it acrylic and leadshot, well there was this sale and I couldn't resist. Also using the periphery ring. And on top of the cartridge is oh I hate to say it so I'll let you figure it out. How it sounds is all that counts, so I can say enthusiastically it's beautiful. Not the end all, but it never will be in this crazy hobby, gottta love it!!
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Components Toggle details

    • VPI Rim Drive HR-X
    Rim Drive
    • VPI Industries TNT-5
    Far from what I had purchased 2 years ago used here on gon. It's total weight around 430 pounds with custom flywheel assembly.
    • VPI Industries TNT-5
    Another view of the flywheel (from old tnt model) that needs 4 motors (3 motors shown here from previous setup, added motor since then) to spin the 95 lbs. of rotational mass. An intermediary pulley (old flywheel) is used to transfer rotational force to record loading platter. Cannot find belt long enough to span two platters hence the in between pulley.
    • VPI Industries TNT-5
    An old incarnation of this ongoing project. This picture was taken before leadshot donut was attached to underside of platter.
    • Flywheel VPI
    String driven figure 8 to create better trcation
    • Flywheel VPI
    Stand alone Flywheel
    • Modification Magnetic Repulsion to platter
    Since adding leadshot encased in acrylic to underside of platter I needed to lessen load on bearing with this magnetic repulsion system.
    • VPI Industries Vpi
    With tons of lead shot
    • VPI Another veiw
    Lots of lead shot
    • Modification to Graham 2.2t
    Leadshot stuffed into little canister and straw attached to wand of tonearm.
    • Denon Denon/zu 103r
    103r
    • K&K Phono stage kit
    Awesome, totally awesome. One of the best at this price point, highly recommended!
    • JLTI Phono
    Excellent phono, beats my ear 834p and approaches the K&K phono stage
    • EAR 834P
    Awesome phono stage for the money, should be modified with better caps and tubes!
    • oppo 980
    An out right bargain of a cd/dvd player, highly recommended!!
    • Sony DVP-S9000es
    Nice player.
    • audio experience a2 se
    Very nice preamp for the money, was quite surprised.
    • Sim Audio Moon P-5
    Suspended by bungie chords and loaded with lead shot.
    • Sim Audio Moon W-5
    Awesome ss amp, most highly recommended!
    • Atma-Sphere ma60 mark II
    Lights up the room in more than one way WOW!!
    • Merlin Music Systems VSM-GEN III RC
    Suspended by cables to keep floor from resonating
    • Merlin Music Systems VSM-GEN III RC
    Another view of the suspended system
    • Martin Logan Depth
    Suspended with steel cables from ceiling above full range.
    • Alesis Masterlink 9600
    Cd burner with hard drive to pre-record (to do editting or equalization) before transferring over to cd.
    • Merlin Bbam, Balanced
    Makes the speakers sing as they were designed to with this bbam.

Comments 109

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"I am very happy but still convinced this is speakers and not live, and the only system that sounded live IMHO are the mbls. Hoping to take it to that level."

Ohms will definitely accomplish the goal of sounding live and not like speakers. That is their true primary appeal and has always been the basis around which the Walsh line is coveted.

If you are serious about making a move, I really think you should try them in home audition, especially before spending more on something else. That is standard procedure for Ohm. If you live close enough, you could probably even pick a pair up and avoid shipping cost and hassles. Then if they don't float your boat, you could easily return them and move on.

You should give them a call and see what model would be recommended for your room(s).

mapman

Owner
Mapman,
I read alot on the denon 103r and yes your reveiw contributed to my decision, thanks.
In regards to my room, it is heavily treated to absorb sound. This is a dedicated listening room and I am willing to change if need be for the next speaker. I will be keeping the merlins and figure my next speaker will go into another room but will be sharing the same electronics.
And the room is 11' x 15'.

pedrillo

Owner
Somec59
The platter does not spin long since the motors stop immediately after the switch to them is turned off. What ends up happening then is the big flywheel and intermediary pulley/flywheel stop spinning but the main platter that holds the record continues with the belt sliding around it, the belt from the intermediary pulley to the main platter doesn't slide around the pulley, as it does the main platter. Usually I will slow it down by hand, as I also give it a push when starting the platter. Remember there is about 95 pounds of rotational mass.
I will be inviting my friends once everything is in place for them to help me decide my next move and to hopefully confirm what I am hearing since I am bias. Hopefully they will post something on this board or not if we are in disagreement, just kidding I am here to learn and am willing to start all over, oh boy I hope that doesn't happen as I have another tt in the design stage.
I am under the impression that my tt equals any I have heard before, but then again I am bias.
At the very least I am very happy but still convinced this is speakers and not live, and the only system that sounded live IMHO are the mbls. Hoping to take it to that level.

pedrillo

Pedrillo,

Glad you like the 103R. Was my review a factor in going that way?

I am pretty confident that if you like the MBLs and think they would work in your room that the Ohms will take to the room easier and that you would take to them as well also.

Unless perhaps you plan to listen from behind the speaks or from some other unique location. MBLs, properly tuned in, would probably have an edge there being true omnis.

I would like to know more about your room and listening location though. Room acoustics are a bigger factor with Ohms and omnis especially if you are looking for a listening experience out of line with what your room inherently delivers.

mapman

How long does the turntable spin after it is turned off?

somec59

Owner
All those posts I read on how good Kevin Carter is- the designer of art audio and k&k is true!!!
My system for some odd reason appears to be improving continually.
It's the whole package obviously but I have good reason to believe the phono stage K&K is a big part of it!!!

pedrillo

Owner
System is on fire!!!!!!
this cartridge keeps opening up:~)

pedrillo

Hanging the sub from the ceiling, now that is a novel idea, and really thinking above the box.

glenfihi

Owner
Oh that was a good one mapman! man you made me laugh, thanks
......
......
,......
Talk about tweak the ears or whats between the ears with beer,
somewhere up north in europe finland to be exact, the senate or senate equivilent would discuss politics in a sauna where the conscious is raised,
now there's a tweak for a society that does the right thing for the citizens.

pedrillo

Good for you, Pedrillo! A beer or two is always a good tweak!

mapman

Owner
"Hands up!!!! pedrillo! Put that check book down!
That's right, don't touch any thing,
leave that system alone" I says to myself.
It never sounded this good.
I just needed to let the denon 103r break in. And I thought about searching for new speakers or needing to replace the phono stage. Ha! now I have more beer money.

pedrillo

I will have another 103 soon.....that one might get some fancy upgrades.....so stay tune. In the midtime I am tring to find time to get my vintage Ortofon cart on one of my tables and play some vinyl.
Have a lot going on lately.

Are you coming to the next -R- in NJ???
I DRIVE ....SO YOU CAN HOP IN ....LET ME KNOW.

mrjstark

Owner
Thanks Mrjstark, After hearing your travel kit I take your advice seriously ;~) and that good food, got any stock tips too?

pedrillo

Tought about wood body or retiping by SoundSmith?

mrjstark

Owner
That denon 103r keeps opening up! Couldn't be more pleased. Wondering what cartridge will be next? Do I need to replace it? Absolutely, need to take it to another level. Any suggestions?

pedrillo

Owner
Mrjstark,
I can bring some left over lead shot *_ ]
*
To dampen any vibrations from those frying Keilbasas.
Yes looking forward to meeting you!!
Peter

pedrillo

Hi Peter,
at the Rave we will need a source for secound system.
We thought about about one of those portable CDP like old Sony. But your table looks good too. How about that. :)

P.S
Very nice rig. I own ML Aerius i for like 6 or 7 years now. Can not get myself to sell them.....but who know. Hopefully I will see you soon.

Mariusz

mrjstark

Hello Pedrillo, are you going to the RMAF in october ? I ask you this because I would like to meet you. I love your enthousiasm !

jloveys

Owner
I must be nuts, what I have is awesome!!!!!!!!!
I realize that the recording is critcal and the needle must be broken in and voila I don't need to look any more.
As long as I remember not every lp will sound excellent. This denon---- ok I already said it before is----awesome.

pedrillo

Owner
Today my denon 103r finally reached a signifacant level of break in. WOW, this cartridge is really good for the money, never thought it would take this long for break in.

pedrillo

Owner
Chashmal,
I would like to say I am crazy and I'll tell you why. My co-worker used to tell me this story when there was nothing to do at work, that when they(those guys in the white garbs) come to pick up a crazy person the first thing that person screams out is "I'm not crazy!", then you know that they are!
Well all I can say is my source never sounded this good!
But I am bias so take that with a grain of salt.
What I do hear from my system is lots of air and ambiance, that came out more so when I made my turntable quieter.
I most highly recommend any and all the tweeks I have worked into my analog end. My friends may be blowing smoke up my ars but when they tear up from the music on my system I think something is happening. If you have any questions don't hesitate.

pedrillo

You are either crazy or a genius. I'd have to hear this rig to know!!!

chashmal

Owner
Mapman,
All I can say is you won't know until you try.
As for me, I should get another graham to compare, the denon 103r's are inexpensive. But the arms are not so much(inexpensive), that's what is stopping me.
You may want to search the forum, this cartridge has been around for awhile and alot has been done with it and written about. There is also all these mods available, like wooden bodies which I have yet to do. And it's been run naked.

pedrillo

Pedrillo,

What's the "K & K" kit you refer to?

Sounds like its doing something good for you relating to the 103R.

Any suggestions regarding the 103R setup on the Lin Axis in my system?

It sounds good to my ears but I was wondering if there is anything easily reversible worth trying with my tonearm to increase mass and experiment a bit for the Denon?

mapman

Owner
After hearing other systems I am not looking to change anything for a long time. Everything I have is excellent and works well together. Could use a bigger room though.

pedrillo

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