Keeping it as simple as I can keep it without compromising what I want. I can sum up my thoughts with a sentence I once read:
"I am of the opinion that the better a system is, the longer it takes to understand its strengths and weaknesses"
Primary goal: To hear the lungs, fingers etc behind the "noise". Makes it very engaging.
Secondary goal: Being honest to the recordings. I say honest even though I was not there when things were recorded ...so I can only speculate :)
I will never replicate live music. Whew ..got that out of the way. So, instead I choose to see how engaging I can make a room sound ...engaging enough to forget about some things, shake up some other things and to share a bit of the emotions someone many decades ago went through.
The room is half the system! This is a very very challenging room 17 feet X 11 feet x 14 feet peaked ceiling and a suspended floor. The ceiling comes down to the floor on one side and to 5ft 9 inches on the other side - so the 17 feet is not really 17 feet. Speakers were moved around the long wall and short wall before anything was added to the room to find the most favorable spot. The results forced a near field listening environment using the long wall placement with the speaker center deliberately not lining up with the peaked ceiling line (preventing standing waves). This left the back wall just 1 feet from the listeners ears.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Acoustic treatments - I like a lively room, and I am not a big fan of absorption ...so I have used it sparingly. I started adding one treatment at a time and voicing it to see if it stayed or not ... a lot did not stay! [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Front wall[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - Plants around the dipole speakers to cause natural diffusion. GIK 13 root Diffusors between the speakers. [lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Side walls[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - Left wall is naked currently, right wall has CORE AUDIO DESIGNS Diffusors covering both the first and second reflection points. [lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Back wall (corners included)[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - Has GIK Tri traps and 244 bass trap [lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Floor[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - 5ft x 7 ft rug over birch floors. [lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Ceiling[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - Left naked - Experimented with GIK 244 up between the peaks but it made the room a bit too lifeless.
TRANSDUCER :: Horning Aristotle Zigma Ultimate
The little hornings with the upgraded drivers. The jump to Dx-65 lowthers keeps me from bringing out my Quad ESL 57's from the closet.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Isolation [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Sits on Symposium Super Plus Platform
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Connected by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Double shotgun using WSS Silver Speaker cables + Audience Au24e Speaker cables.[lessthansign]/br[greaterthansign] [lessthansign]b[greaterthansign] Positioning[lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] - Speaker are 104 inches apart (tweeter to tweeter). Left speaker is 19 inches (inside corner) from front wall and 36 inches from sloping ceiling. Right speaker is 19 inches (inside corner) from back wall and 30 inches from side wall. Listening ears are 93 inches from each tweeter. Speakers are towed in significantly to point to each outer shoulder of the listener.
AMP :: PureSound M845 Monoblocks
Grips the Hornings to make very very engaging music. It is essential to treat Speakers, Amp and room as a single voice. What maybe right for one room and speaker maybe disastrous for another.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Isolation [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] TerraStone Platform and TerraStone Roller-ball (brass) footer. Herbies Audio Tube dampers on the Rectifier tube.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Connected by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- WSS Silver RCA 3 meters. Powered by Tel Wire HC Cord 4 meters.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Voiced with [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Power tubes are Shuguang 845b. Driver tubes are 6SN7WGT/A Early type brownbase JAN Sylvania Military grade. Rectifier tubes are Tung-Sol VT-244 JAN CTL 5U4G black plate rectifier
PRE :: Tron Seven Ultimate Line Stage
Musically resolving. It's a Tron! It's delicacy is well matched with the grips of the M845 amp
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Connected by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Purist Audio Proteus Provectus Praesta 0.5 meters. Powered by Tel Wire Chord 2 meters
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Tweaks by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Hi-fi Supreme tuning fuse
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Voiced with [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- 1949 Tungsol 5687's
PHONO :: Tron Seven Ultimate Phono Stage
Musically resolving. It's a Tron! 100 ohm load for MC's. Originally had a standard Tron phono ... the Ultimate adds resolution and depth (not just soundstage) to the music by a significant amount (I was fortunate to voice both at the same time before I committed to upgrading to an Ultimate)
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Connected by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Raven 10.5 dedicated Phono cable. Powered by Tel Wire Chord 2 meters
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Tweaks by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Hi-fi Supreme tuning fuse
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Voiced with [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Mazda 12ax7 triple Mica's silver plate and a Mazda 12au7 silver plate
SOURCE :: TW-Acustic Raven 2 + AC motor controller
A good base to start with. Got the 2 armboard version for future mono expansion.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Isolation [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- SRA Ohio-Class XL IsoBASE for TT Shun Mook record clamp for record to platter coupling. Herbies Audio Tenderfoot + 2 SuperSonic Stabilizer for Motor Controller.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Connected by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Raven 10.5 Arm single run copper RCA's for stereo needs. WSS PowerChord on the Motor controller.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Tweaks by [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Hi-fi Supreme tuning fuse for motor controller
SOURCE :: Stereo :: Raven 10.5 + Cadenza Black
The Raven Arm is a superb arm with simplicity I appreciate. Ortofon Cadenza Black is an amazing cartridge. Everytime I want to move up the ladder and spend stupid money, I listen to my system and it tells me otherwise!
Added a Shun Mook Reference MC cartridge to the 10.5 arm. This is a very special cartridge. Great on mono records and bad records and is a good dollop more musical than any cartridge that has been through my system so far.
POWER :: A collective effort
Living in the heart of Denver, I have some really crappy power. Voltage varies from 114-127 regularly! Listed in order of
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Base Power [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- Single run Cryo treated 10 gauge - 20 amp romex (30 feet run from junction box) to a Synergistic research Tesla SE receptacle.
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Voltage Regulation [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign]- SPR-20i - Plugged directly into the AC receptacle using the Silver Circle Audio Vesuvius II chord:: sitting on top of TerraStone Roller-ball (brass) footer
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Amp power [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] Silver Circle JuiceBox 1 plugged directly into the Voltage regulator via Vesuvius II chord:: The monoblocks plug into this
[lessthansign]b[greaterthansign]Source power [lessthansign]/b[greaterthansign] REIMYO ALS-777 AC Line Stabilizer plugged directly into the Voltage regulator via Harmonix X-DC Studio Master Power Cord :: The Line, Phono and TT Motor Controller plug into this.
System edited: Bought a Shun Mook Reference MC cartridge 45 days ago. Right out of the box it added quite a bit more body to the music (this is not the same thing as warmth!) along with a lot more energy in the bottom end and just a sense of rightfulness (for the lack of a better word) to the music ...yet itwas "slow" and not very resolving and was overpowering my room. I am a disciple of Bill @ Shun Mook, so I stuck with it. Put in over 200 hours on it along with moving around some of my mpingo discs in the room and added more Pine planks to reinforce the back loaded horns to deal with the new energy being put out by the system. I am finally happy to say that this cartridge is not leaving my system voluntarily. After much work and burning in the cartridge, things have finally clicked. 1) Human voices are quite a bit more engaging. 2) Jazz - You can now taste the improvisations between the artists. 3) Monos - Plays them as good as a miyajima premium BE mono - to my surprise! 4) Bad recordings are much more approachable now. 5) Rock is so much easier to rock out to now at lower levels. A very very good contrast to the Ortofon Black, which is an amazing cartridge that I have no plans to get rid off. Instead, the plan is to get another raven 10.5 arm in the distant future to mount the cadenza back on for days that call for 100db "war pig" (Black Sabbath) days :)
Jeff raves about your 845s. I can imagine that the Hornings love the extra power. It's almost similar to cars. No car likes being pushed by a 2 liter engine :)
After speaking with Brent Jessie I came to the same conclusion about the tubes for my Tron. I was deciding between the top Amperex and the Mazda silver plates. He finds the Mazdas more neutral than the Amperex with great punch and top end sparkle. Unfortunately your triple micas weren't available but he assured me that the 2 mica version with tube dampers would be just as good.
I'll have to try fuses next. It's interesting that you found the fuse in the TW motor controller had the biggest impact.
Latinsamba, Thanks. I truly believe that the PS 845's are special (its the way the driver tube is coupled to the rest of the circuit), especially when driving a speaker like the hornings. Grips it and takes charge, yet allows the system to have lungs.
About the NOS tubes in the Tron. I tried NOS tele's (40's) and Amperex Bugle Boys. Tele's had a ton of air, but not enough slam. Amperex's had such a beautiful tone all around but was a touch to warm in my system and for my liking. Brent Jessie turned me on to the Mazda's ... I originally had the standard grey plate and they had just the right mix of air, body and slam. When I upgraded to the triple Mica, a sense of delicacy came in to the picture that I never knew I really missed but welcomed it.
In regards to the Hifi tuning, start with the TW MC (I have the AC one). Made the biggest of changes! Next was the phono. I have all the fuses swapped out in my equipment and it was a really good bang for the buck investment. Like cleaning your glasses with windex ;). Must say though I have not tried other fuses. Too busy in real life ..that when I get time ... I try and actually enjoy the music.
The tuning devices are intriguing. I went to the website and read up on them and I'm considering the ebony headshell, because my Ortofon has a screw type assembly. Now, I understand the armboard application.
Great system! Jeff tells me your 845s sound amazing with the Hornings.
I would love to hear your thoughts on what the silver plate Mazdas did for the sound in your Tron phono stage. My ultimate preamplifier still has the stock tubes but I've been thinking about upgrading. Did the hifi tuning fuses also make a difference?
"Now that's funny!" funny, but amazingly useful tuning device. Come borrow 1 or 2 from me and you will be thoroughly surprised.
In regards to the TW, the most impact positive I have heard it have (in order):
1) Standing upright between the MC input and the MC power chord. 2) The tonearm base - standing upright - tilting it at different angles changes the sound considerably - good tuning. 3) 3-motor controller - face down between the two back pulleys.
have fun, keep an open mind and surprise yourself :)
thumbturn? You mean the on the fly VTA adjustor? Thats part of every Raven 10.5 tonearm. I love that feature of the arm. I believe TW sells it separately for use with other arms as well.
Been living with a new addition to the system for the last 5 days.
Added a 3 motor unit to the Raven 2 table. Thing is almost as big as the little raven :) http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=mb2t05&s=5#.UmGfwxZhjjY
4 things to go by for now: Much lower noise floor, Much more textured Bass, Vocals have so much more depth to the voice and there is more air (still not as much as a P50 amp ....but thats another story :) )
Paul, Just noticed your question. I have both the late 40's pair and the late 50's. The 40's have a cleaner midrange, I believe, compared to the 50's (I never noticed it ...but after listening to the 40's I think the 50's maybe a bit thick in the mid range ...nothing bad at all). I got lucky and bought a used pair of 40's from Andy.
What are you running in the Tron phono? I have a pair of triple Mic Mazda silver plates. Lovely tubes of which I paid an arm and a leg for .... but I love their sound!
-assad p.s> Was good seeing you in Denver. Whats your email addy?
The 5687 Tung-Sol's you use in the Seven Line. How do they compare to later Tung-Sol or others that you may haave tried. DO you think they are worth the premium?
I have always been able to hear my sloping left ceiling. Piano's/guitars etc sounded congested when on the left stage as opposed to the right stage. Tried many a things and just gave up for a while.
Upon talking with Bill Ying from Shun Mook about how I can spend my hard earned dollars on his products, he told me to not spend anything ....instead fix the left wall. He told me to go get pine planks from lowes and create true corners in the front and back for the speakers and to create a natural diffusor in between. After a week of playing with position I am very very happy with the results.
4ft pine planks followed by 2 ft pine planks in between them ..just laying between the floor and ceiling
Improvements as follows: 1) Left stage feels as wide open as the right stage now. 2) There is much less overhang on instruments ...especially the bass. Guitar notes have cleaned up quite a bit as well. [A very surprising improvement] 3) Much more depth to the sound stage. Both left and right stages ....I suspect putting a plank at the second reflection point of the right speaker (on the left wall) really helped with that. [A very surprising improvement] 4) Vocals are much more grounded and well defined.
All for just $60.00 :) It has killed off my usable space by quite a bit, but the improvements are of the magnitude, that at this point ... I don't care :)
My next plan is to replace my bass traps on the wall behind the listener with stacks of old newspaper. Not sure about the sonic value yet, but its guaranteed to make my wife further question my sanity :)
Assad, The Hornings are still getting better the longer I listen to them. They seem to be warming up more and more I use them. I have had them for almost a year, and I originally had them about 12" from the wall, now it is almost 20" away, and I am thinking of moving them out a little more, every time I do it gets even better, deeper soundstage, better cleaner, delineated bass. They seem to have more ease, the top end is smooth and midrange is very clear. I do not have enough room width to move them to the long wall. At a little over 12' wide I do not think it would be a good move.
Jarraa, exactly. I have become very intrigued by how power and vibration control can improve the sound. Adding an AC regenerator has been a revelation. Now I am playing with Stillpoints under my components and speakers.
Tboooe, I keep saying I am done, but I am far from it. Not trying to recreate live sound now ...but just trying to see how much more I can squeeze out of my current setup. Now its just the room and me and ancillary power things to play with!
Jarraa, This system is well put together and is very straight forward. I imagine your sound is very beautiful,natural and has a high degree of emotional realism. You certainly must experience deep involvement with your music. Regards,
I will never replicate live music. Whew ..got that out of the way. So, instead I choose to see how engaging I can make a room sound ...engaging
Well said! Once I stopped trying to recreate the live sound and realized music in a room from speakers is a different sound I have been much happier with my system. Well done!
