Hello Heinz. Regarding the Tannoy supertweeters. I concurr with your assessment and did use the St-100 for a stint. A close friend brought over a ribbon super tweeter that I much preferred to the Tannoy St-100. Sold the Tannoy st-100's and am now using the French Audax pro tweeter[a silk dome] for supertweet duty. [a 1st order crossover alignment at 24khz]
Yes,like most any oil impregnated capacitors... the silver supremes take what seems like forever to fully open up, particularly in low voltage crossover applications. I like to burn in all my caps employing a high voltage [frequency modulted] signal prior to installing them in any application, as I truly believe it a mandatory requirement to make any objective comparable analysis.
Regarding the tannoy crossovers: You mentioned you changed one capacitor in yours. Was it one in the high-pass section?
I updated the most of the passive parts of the crossovers in mine [excluding the inductors] as I was occasionally experiencing lower output with one speaker due to dirty contacts on the energy level switch [pot]. Once I removed the crossovers from the cabinets and bi-passed the switches, It immediately became apparent that the these contacts in the signal path were a substantial liability.Furthermore, when I re-installed the updated crossovers back into the cabinets, I came to the conclusion [immediately] that leaving the crossovers out of the cabinet [ re:outboard crossovers] are the only way to go!
Back to the crossovers:
After testing the capacitors, resistors, and switches on the crossovers, I discovered that a few of the resistors had drifted out of spec as well as one of the capacitors.
I then decided to replace all the resistors and capacitors on the crossovers, both the hi-pass section as well as the low pass section.
The speakers are now more dynamic,more extended in the frequency extremes [particularly in the midbass] better resolution and focus. The midrange is very vivid with a layered texture thats definitively more coherent.
Simply put: A substantial improvement across the board without removing the subliminal tonal balance that the classic dual-concentrics Tannoys are famous for.

ecclectique February 03, 2008 20:37

System edited: I guess it's about time I updated the changes here. The Antique lab 1006 monos were replaced with a Vulcan 240 tube amp.The Shelter 501 was sold after evaluation. The Supratek Syrah is now being used in another system and replaced with a custom Cortese. The Tannoy Westminsters have been rewired with cardas golden reference from the crossovers to the drivers. The stock crossovers have been updated with new capacitors[V-cap & Mundorf silver supremes],original resistors were replaced with precision Mills. The attenuation controls [tweeter attenuation and roll off] have been bi-passed and hardwired at the flat position. The crossovers are now outboard of the cabinets allowing for bi-amping, bi-wiring or single speaker wire runs with jumpers. An Audio Research CD-2 has been added for dedicated redbook playback.

ecclectique June 04, 2007 16:43

Hi Shadorne. Thanks for your kind words. Just saw your system and room.Well done, very comfortable looking and I am more than certain it makes for a rewarding musical experience.I must commend you on your choice of speakers, you have a good ear sir, I have heard the powered ATC's a number of times in recording studios and they are truly special.

ecclectique February 27, 2006 02:11

Hey Sirspeedy, Thanks for the kind words, yes I love my music.

ecclectique September 12, 2005 22:46

Hi Ray and Pat.I Hardly ever check in to my page and was surprised to see you guys here. Pat: The bass response of the older vintage Tannoy's were always their achillies heal due to their flimsy cabinets. They just could not support the bottom octave reponse of the driver itself.Tannoy addressed the problem with the cabinet design of the Westminster.A complex cabinet design that is heavily braced and weighs in at 510 lbs each. These baby's can move the room and rattle your fillings with a scant 20 watts of power!

ecclectique August 23, 2005 11:12

Hi Szutinglee. Thankyou for your kind words. Yes, I have used a number of set amps from 2a3's,300b's,842's and 845's. I have played around a bit with some super tweets and some ribbons, however I have never heard the Tannoy super tweets. One day I will have to update my pictures in this thread. cheers David.

ecclectique August 23, 2005 10:23

Hello Raul. Thank you for your kind words sir. I apologize for not replying earlier as I rarely check the thread in MY PAGE. I recently stumbled across your incredible collection of arms and cartridges on a post in the analogue thread . WOWZA! Holy Tamoly man! Simply outstanding sir! We seem to have similiar tastes in arm and cartridge choices as I have had quite a few of those arms and cartridges on the Melco over the years as well. I love my Sumiko mdc 800 and will never part with it. The Melco was made in Japan and was first introduced in the early 80's as a precision tool to the trade for comparing arms and cartridges, as it will accomodate 3 separate tone arms. The 75 lb brass platter is supported by a custom machined high tolerance bearing assembly and driven by a separate regulated dc motor assembly from a Studer R2R tape machine. The brass platter is damped on the underside with a sorbothane type material. I am currently using THE ARM with a cardas golden cross interface and an original early suguno made 80's Koetsu rosewood cartridge. I also use a stax uni-pivot[12 inch version] with a pure silver wired interface and mounted with a grado statement. At the back of the melco I use a highly tweeked out ET-2 air bearing wired with pure silver and an old vintage Fidelity Research mc.The Tannoy Westminsters are a wonderful sounding true full range dynamic speaker in stock form but can be much improved upon from factory stock . My vintage Westminsters have been highly tweeked, the crossovers have been removed from the cabinets,rewired with pure silver wire from the drivers,as well as the crossover circuit boards in a true Bi-wire configuration and interfaced with directly soldered silver wire from the crossovers to the amps, All the caps have been replaced with v-caps for the tweeters and Solens + V-caps on the woofer. All the original resistors have been replaced with precision Mills types with silver air core inductors. The internal cabinet has relined with 4 ply 1 1/2 inch baltic birch and damped with a cork liner and 4inch layers of uholstery wool. One day I will update my profile in my system as I have made some changes. The proac 4's are used in another room in my studio with the vac monos and the supratek syrah preamp. With the Tannoy's, I am currently using a highly modified supratek cortese preamp driving a pair of vintage Klangfilm mono blocks on the tweeters and a Bedini solid state amp for the woofer. It will play all types of music effortlessly even at concert hall volume levels although they are better suited for very large rooms. I love them dearly!

ecclectique June 17, 2005 03:24

Hi Stan. Nice room and system. Most westminsters are sold to Japaneese enthusiats that have similiar room dinensions and many much smaller. I have heard them in a room with similiar dimensions to yours and was extremely impressed. They would certainly be an imposing sight though. Even though they are huge, they disappear musically when properly set up,a phenomenon that amazes most any one that's ever experienced them. None of the music sticks to the driver or baffle like most other high-end speakers. If your keen on the Tannoy sound you may also want to consider the Canteburry 15HE. A smaller cabinet with the same duo-concentric driver as the Westminster Royal. I have never heard a pair though. If I didn't have my pair.... I would acquire a pair of 15 inch Tannoy Golds and have a cabinet maker build me cabinets to house them or try to find a pair of older Westminsters and swap out the drivers and crossovers.PS:I saw the pair you were referring to, there is a pair of Westminster Royals listed on the Gon right now.

ecclectique April 05, 2005 14:30

Hello Stan. I haven't looked here in a long time and just read your post. Thank you for your kind words. My Westminsters were made in Scotland in 1984. I replaced the original westminster drivers with the earlier 15 inch Tannoy Golds and crossovers. The crossovers are now outboard of the cabinets and have also been updated with better capacitors and resistors. The earliest westminsters including TW versions employed ferrite magnets. The current westminster royal employ an alcomax magnet and is their crowning achievment and the flagship of the line up. Sensitivity is rated around 98 db. Even though they are very good for listening in a nearfield enviroment, in a large room they come closer to the illusion of a full scale live event at real volume levels. While I have had other highly regarded large speakers in my room.... none can do what the big Tannoy's can. Most of the Westminster's were exported to the Far East and rarely seen in North America. If you can beg,borrow or steal a pair, they will surely be the last speaker you will ever buy! The royal HE being the ultimate however the TW versions are much less money when available and can be fitted with the legendary 15 inch Tannoy Golds. The Tannoy golds are the best sounding speaker Tannoy ever produced. In my honest opinion, they are even better than the current alcomax version.

ecclectique April 04, 2005 08:23

Hello Chang. I can certainly understand your apprehension regarding tube venders on the net. The majority of them are just peddling the tubes in their inventories and don't have any idea as to the sound of them in real world audio applications.I presonally would not trust any of them.Many do not even have proper equipment for matching and testing these octal tubes.It is a crap shoot at best. There are many sonic flavors of 6sn7's and typically the early gt versions are sonically superior to the gta's and gtb's. The neutron tube you mention.....Is this a current production tube? The Neotron labelled tubes of the golden age were made in France.... usually relabelled mazdas or cifte tubes. I am unaware they even made a 6sn7. The mullard ecc35 is a good sounding euro tube, however it is much closer electrically to the [higher gain] 6sL7 than a 6sn7. The closest euro equivalent to the 6sn7 would be the B65 which was manufactured by brimar and often labelled mullard.However it is also not an exact equivalent tube electrically.In many amplifier applications, it is possible to substitute 6sn7's for 6sl7' and vice versa,however these are generally swapped for use as driver duty or input tube applications found in typical power amp circuits, not for gain use in preamps. Further more..... both the 6sn7 and 6sl7 were actually invented in America and in my honest opinion...were better sounding than most of the euro octal based substitutes. When used in a preamp....octal tubes are very very critical with regards to noise and micophonics.The very best eqivalents of the 6sn7 were originally developed exclusively for the American Miltary Defense and werer actually commisioned by the American military for use in the highly confidental missle program.These were the RCA redbase 5691[6sL7] and the 5692[6sn7].Most examples of these tubes [typically] are extremely low in noise,rugged, generally have the tightest triode section matches than any of the 6sn7 octals,they are also a true 10,000 hour tube. RCA invented both the 6sn7 and 6sl7 in the 1920's and sold more of these tubes than all of the rest combined.I am not familiar with your preamp, however I would not hesitate in recommending the redbase 5692's. Although they are quite expensive,they are much less of a gamble than any other 6sn7. Your sylvania 6cg7's are more than likely relabelled GE's. They are actually very good sounding tubes and would be very difficult to get anything much better, perhaps the 1950's tung sols or the 1950's RCA top getter version. "NOTE" Always keep in mind that even brand new nos tubes can be noisy and microphonic "right out of the Box" regardless of how strong they test or how tight their triode sections! This is the main reason why I personally have such low regard for tube sellers on the net.Without listening to the tube in an actual preamp application,one can never honestly tell you how good or how quiet it will be in your system. If you are after specific tubes [per say] and having any trouble sourcing them,let me know, I have been hording them for years and have hundreds of them in my personal collection. Hope this helps. Cheers David.

ecclectique February 22, 2004 21:23

Hi Kublakhan. Is this going to be an interior room in the house? I ask this because... if I had my way, I would never have used the sheetrock.I would have left the walls simply as open wooden joist's with the acoustic insulation stuffed between them.My wife just wouldn't buy off on it.Before I did the sheetrock thing- I listened to rig for months and even brought in the acoustat 2+2's as well as a pair of proac response 3's.Every speaker system sounded very good and all of them were very easy to place in the room for tone,balance and staging.As you already know...e-stats need some breathing room behind them to couple with the room.No more "single seat" sweet spot.They simply disappear,the stage is huge!I will be building another room strictly for the acoustats and will definitely leave open joist's on the sidewalls,staggered baffles on the ceilings and a solid wall behind the speakers.Try to keep your listening seat as far away from the back wall as possible.You didn't mention your speakers? I am just assuming they will be E-stats of somekind.I learned many years ago... that the room can sometimes be more important than the sum of the components used in it.Ever heard a vintage pair of 16 ohm Rogers LS3/5a's on good stands in a small room? Even with mediocre vintage tube gear.. they make music with as much or more soul than some of the $50,000 rigs I've heard in the high end salons.Hope this Helps. Cheers David.

ecclectique June 06, 2003 05:20

Hello Gang. Twl...Thank you for your kind words,they are very much appreciated here.As most of you veteran audio guys know... that no matter how good your system is,it is really only as good as your room will allow it to be.Putting the system together was actually the easy part of the equation. Tuning a room of that size was not only very expensive but a 2 1/2 year exercise in frustration.In 1999,I had the opportunity to acquire a 100 year old school house in the farm country of Ontario.Four huge rooms to work with....I thought I had died and gone to audio heaven!....Finally; I thought....the perfect room to set up my beloved Tannoys.I was soooo excited,I had a smile from ear to ear. Well... the smile disappeared with the first bar of Ry Cooder.My kids "Kenners give a show stereo" sounded better.The Westminsters are very full range and also very efficient.With a concrete floor,plaster ceiling and 4 double brick walls...ahhhhh!..well...I am sure you get the picture!After countless hours of sound proofing the walls,foors,ceiling, tuning,rewiring,tuning some more,changing cables,swapping out amps,preamps and more speakers,I finally got it right. Big, effortless sound in the proper scale and tone from anywhere in the room.I should qualify a few things.Most of my adult life was spent listening to the recording arts through electrostatic speakers and tube amplification.[stacked quads,acoustat 2+2's] in fairly large rooms.I have never really been fond of loaded horns per say.The Tannoys do NOT sound like your typical horn loaded speaker,as a matter of fact they sound more like an e-stat than any other speaker I have ever heard and without the inherent liabilities of a stator.They have real "soul" and resolve so much imformation in proper scale...and at live concert hall levels to boot.No Midgets on stage here.My preferences to music are oriented more to jazz, blues and straight ahead rock.Preferabbly live recordings.Wanna hear Louis blow his horn,take a breath and blow it some more, or Bill Evans play his Steinway at full tilt boogie.Hendrix and the Band of Gypsy's New Years Eve bash live at the Fillmore "now there's a monumental recording on vinyl" The best of it all is... Ive got great seats and can indulge in favorite beverage or whatever.Yeah.. I'm a pretty happy camper these days...Gregm...The Luminesence has been my Reference preamp for vinyl playback for almost 20 years[and hopefully 20 more]I have 2 very good systems so the syrah or the lumi will be used in one of them. I sent my Koetsu to Japan for an overhaul and can't wait to get it back so I can do a shoot out between the preamps with a cartridge that I've lived with for 20 years.I recently acquired a Shelter 501 to tide me over-- however.. I just have'nt had enough seat time with it dial it in yet.Kublakhan[great handle]I will try to describe Tannoy's sound in context at another time as I think I'm getting a little long winded here! and besides that I am a really a 1 fingered typer and its time for bed.Cheers David

ecclectique May 27, 2003 06:11